Monday, September 17, 2012

Conversation with Prince Essex - 9-15-2012


Essex:  Alder Tull was the one who … about a year ago I believe La Cruz was killed by Mr. Castle and his compatriots known as 7.  They sort of stated to the world the first estate would become more violent because all of the diplomats had been killed.   All the diplomats and political leaders but implications were that all the thoughtful and restrained are all dead and now we will turn into a rampaging violent hoard and so you should avoid causing any trouble for us.  There was the other Alder Da La Cruz who was also known for being very calm and I believe is still in existence and not a member of the Prima Invitca.  Surprisingly …

Raoul:  I saw him recently.  He’s doing well.

Essex: And it didn’t really mention that house Flayed had been firm supporters of Mr. Castle.  Once he was publically known as being with 7, they did a fairly consistent scene with seeing him destroyed but it was like ‘you, all you other people have done this,’ it’s not the member of the first estate who murder each other in prominent police actions or be betrayed by people of the covenant.  It’s disappointing because some of them were very prominent members of the first estate and respectable and maintainers of our society.  Many politicians have been killed by members of their own covenant which is rouge members.  I would agree with the Invictus that they form the basis of our society.  So it’s disappointing when you essentially have rouge elements overturn that. 

For instance the same members of the first and second estate were involved with the end of Cardinal Sebastian.   These things are disappointing.  

Whereas I’m always disappointed when Dragons act poorly and they have, the frequently do especially in Indiana.  I’m happy to reiterate any number of cases of them doing that.  It disappoints me sort of personally but not philosophically because it’s not often academically but the cause of very poor social skills.  

On the contrary point, at some point we are going to have a war within our society.  In the same way people fight over cities we now have … we all live much closer together and interact more and that is going to.  It shouldn’t have to result in violence but most likely will.  And there are cases to be made that of having that happen before a fully fledge sort of information and security state is present means that all gets settled sooner rather than later.  We are less likely to expose ourselves to the world fully.  Whereas if we have a great war in our society 50 years from now vampires will quickly become apparent to the public.  So the presence of the Prima Invicta tendency to globalize is possibly in the long run going to do better.   Not necessarily that they will be successful but it sort of forces the issue.   I’m not a fan of warfare but I think it’s entirely likely and if this should fail badly, it will hopefully be replaced by a better model.  One that they will establish will be a unified set empire and even if incredibly oppressive will at least maintain the masquerade, so … That has its advantages.      

Raoul:  So you think the Prima Invicta does have its merits.

Essex: I don’t think a singular emperor is a wise idea.  We obviously haven’t moved past Princes and there are arguments to be made that Kindred need a top predator, just from evidence.  Counsels frequently have not worked in ruling cities.  

Raoul:  Well …

Essex:  They tend to devolve and I’m a scientist and I don’t look past what is apparent.  Set systems are still the most problematic point of the Gangrel and Carthians have tried number of experiments they rarely have been successful in the long run.  On the other hand, I respect that they are attempting to turn into something else because increasingly younger Kindred are embraced and younger Kindred do not deal well with a Utilitarian state but much less with Aristocracy.  So even calling on a Prince immediately turns off younger Kindred.  If you had a CEO in charge of your city, they might deal with that better.  

Raoul:  Speaking of that, you have heard that Chicago was declared itself a free state.

Essex: Oh yes, I find that very interesting and I hope that it works out well but usually it has not.  And you’ve only been doing that for a couple months …

Raoul: Yes that’s true.

Essex: My assumption is that at some point that would consolidate after a year or two, well actually usually a couple of months, but sometimes it takes a bit longer, into one or two singular individuals by force of personality sort of become the leaders of that particular consul of free states.  And then usually get into a fight with one or two other notable voices and then the power sort of consolidates.  

Raoul:  We’ll see

Essex:  I don’t have a preference between either systems, actually.  I think the consuls have a lot to recommend them and actually would frequently be better.  It’s just that our natural predator instincts tend to result in people establishing whom is the greater predator, up until there is one.   

Sheriff of Dekalb:  Would it be fair to call Chicago a consul?  It’s more of a freeform democracy.  It was explained that everyone has a voice.

Essex: Yes, and actually as far as I know that hasn’t actually been tried and that may alter the state and actually may work out very well.  Because a dark democracy or functional anarchy, hard to define those things, they are similar, may actually work out better.  But the problem is when someone is acting aberrantly it is harder to put them in place without a gathering within the gathering.

Raoul:  Well, we have had many discussions about how we would deal with someone who wasn’t abiding by the traditions and was being a problem.  

Essex:  Yes, well, the thing with the Prima Invicta is that some point we will need structures that are wider than a city.  The very fact is, we communicate across city lines and we can travel quickly across city lines, whereas, several decades ago, you might have those in Elysiums but you might have people who’d be in your city who didn’t communicate with other Kindred very much.   You’d have your little territory, you’d have an overarching Prince but you wouldn’t interact that much.  

Brief interlude were Tsubaki delivers a birthday invitation to Master Lin’s birthday which Essex quickly reads and then pushes far away from himself as possible.

Raoul:  We are a bit worried about Master Lin in Chicago with good reason I suppose.

Essex: He is a sort of number of traditions and considers family important to him and Lord Ivanovich was his childr or grandchildr.  Therefore I imagine he is rather upset or rather disappointed in the way things went.

Raoul: He has made some vague threats in our direction nothing concrete yet.

Essex: Usually acolytes would find that their tradition.  But anyways, about the Invictus, at some point there will be wider Kindred organization.  The covenants at the very least will organize, some more than others in wider spreads.  I honestly don’t think an Emperor is good.  Most of the imperium that have cropped up just between a couple of cities have also destabilized.   And the Prima Invicta haven’t seem to decided … while they have their Emperor they also have all these other Viceroys and they are without a Prince or a sovereign, which is a good selling point, but ultimately wouldn’t work for the same reason those imperiums fell apart.  As the Prince will change over and will not wish to follow some particular order.   The imperiums haven’t worked because either they’ve been to oppressive that people have left or not oppressive enough.  So, I don’t think it’s the ideal system, I think it’s going to help force the issue and possibly as much as some of the southwest of the United States done, will form wider governments in response.   And hopefully out of that something productive will occur.  Hopefully prevent a war.  If not, we will at least get out of the way earlier, hopefully that will be it.  Because I imagine most Kindred after having a high body count and breaks in the Masquerade will ultimately determine that is a terrible idea.  

Raoul:  I’ve never meant Clement, have you?  What do you think of Clement as a Kindred?

Essex:  I’ve seen him at one or two gatherings and spoken to him once.  He’s impeccable polite in society and sort of well behaved.  But that comes across very much as a ‘I’m a fairly monstrous individual and sort of maintaining this façade.’  Which is very clearly meant as a façade.  As far as his judgment, he’s been involved in any number of what might be termed, murder squads.  

Raoul:  He is a member of House Flayed, correct.  

Essex:  Yes.  His presentation is … there’s been a couple of gatherings where he’s spoken, there was a gathering, when one of the older Romans turned up to inspect society where he at least spoke, ‘there were many people that he didn’t agree with and he didn’t like but was willing to work with all of you. ‘  He is not in favor of chaos.  The problem is, many people view particularly House Flayed’s efforts to maintain order, in fact is creating disorder.

Raoul:  Well yes, since they have way to maintaining order by causing disorder to maintain order.  

Essex:  Well they would say, they were eliminating the disruptive elements, on the other hand, some of their targets of that are people like Cardinal Sebastian who would not be seen as disruptive by any right thinking individual.  

Raoul:  Yeah, they have no right to make that judgment, and yet they do.   

Essex:  The other problem, well the other difficulty the Prima Invicta is going to face, is that while it’s currently an imperium anyone has chosen to join, it’s largely, well I don’t believe I’m incorrect in saying that while there are members of the first estate who are skeptical of the Invicta, it is viewed as largely run by members of the first estate.  Therefore if you have members of the movement who are unhappy with the situation but cannot match the military force of it, or feel they can escape, they are likely to resort to alternative means as such.  Like, they are not going to meet the Invictus on the battlefield or Invicta battlefield, the norms have established that is not wise.  Acolytes or Carthians and I’m worried we will begin having gatherings were people will, say, bomb them or torch areas or act as an insurgent force because Kindred are particularly good at that.  In fact it’s wiser for a Kindred to act as a terrorist then to meet someone on the field on honor.  That level of rampant violence and disorder will quickly become a problem.  

Raoul:  On that subject, Evengii is missing still, we still don’t know where he is.

Essex: That’s disappointing.  Well on the other hand House Flayed would likely take credit for that if they had eliminated him.

Raoul:  I don’t believe he’s eliminated.  He’s probably just waiting this out someplace.

Essex:  Yes.  

Raoul:  He made a few bad decisions.

Essex:  Lord Evengii has periodically taken some time to calm down when things have unwound to fully recover.  He will go through periods were he grows close to his Beast and becomes a little erratic and usually steps away at that point.  So he may be doing that.  

Raoul:  Okay, well I hope so.  I’m not sure how the Chicago free state would be if he was still around.  However, he’s not so it continues on.

Essex: I assume Miss Mae has been a component of the Chicago Free State. 
     
Raoul:  Oh yeah

Essex: I would be curious to see if … If she and Lord Evengii agreed on those things it would be a very stable situation.   If it had been agreed things would probably be better, in a sense. 

Raoul:  Mae and Papa Sallow are not attending the gatherings as much anymore.  They are clearly active within the city still.  Mae was never fond of Ivanovich and was happy to see his end.    

Essex:  That’s not surprising.  Also given his personality she wouldn’t have approved of his approach to many things.  Well, early on, especially in his first term as Prince, even in Chicago, he had sort of a more restrained hand.  Well he had apparently grown very close to his Beast and in the matter with which he approached that, I doubt Miss Mae would have dealt with it well.  People appear to be getting more erratic, sort of led by their Beast or kind of unreasonable to utilitarian figures.  Which is not surprising for those in the movement to dislike that.  I don’t think she necessarily dislikes order, I mean Carthians are not viewed as anarchists, but I think she dislikes situations in which people are not expected to think.  

Raoul:  Right.  I understand.

Essex:  And for some of the things I heard about Lord Ivanovich he had started to, if someone was not immediately following orders he was …

Raoul:  He committed quite a few atrocities near the end there.  They were all taken into consideration during his trial.  

Essex:  Speaking of that, how are things going with yourself?  You were having some difficulties, I believe, with the Acolytes, also with Lord Ivanovich.  That situation of course resolved itself.

Raoul: Um, not the Acolytes.  I’m deputy in the city to Einar who is an Acolyte and Sheriff of the city.

Essex: My impression was there was some conflict there.

Raoul:  Well, I mean, I had some conflict early on when I first came to the city.  

Essex:  Well that’s …

Raoul:  Have you heard anything else, recently?

Essex:  No.  Just curious.  I was curious if your studies is involved in trying to provoke people or not.  There are Dragons who do that.  Or possibly a matter of approaching this situation.

Raoul:  I mean, there is a bit of that, yes.   I don’t always get along well at social gatherings.  I tend to be a little antsy at times.   

Essex:  So you haven’t had any further difficulty with Mr. Anderson.

Raoul:  Well there was one, a little bit of one.  He called me an idiot and I called him an idiot back and that didn’t sit well with him.

Essex:  No it wouldn’t.  That’s a fairly minor … I assume that Chicago is fairly unified right now.  I would just be concerned about the unity or stability that can quickly become paranoid about any disruptive elements.  

Raoul:  Yeah … Besides that there hasn’t been anything.  I’m really proud to be part of a unified state right now.  It’s a good concept, I think it’s fairly interesting.  

Essex:  I’m rather fascinated by it and keep meaning to visit it at some point.  

Raoul:  Well, you’d have to … I don’t think they would attack you, I doubt it but …

Essex:  I still think it would good to give notice.  

Raoul:  Yeah, it would be.

Essex:  That’s usually a good idea in general.  

Raoul:  It would be your Priscus, I believe Ellen Peters, if you contact her she would be …

Essex:  There have been a couple different manners.  Does one contact the Sheriff, the Priscus, or both?

Raoul:  The Priscus is what we say but both is better.  

Essex:  That was my point.  Apparently there has been some confusion over the topic so … Just to be fair I was planning on contacting both but was just curious what the official policy was.

Raoul:  The official policy is the Priscus

Essex:  I also I didn’t want to seem disrespective by contacting both and say that I was covering my bases would show a lack of appreciation for the ordered system.  If free is how it would go … A kind of free state is a bit different then a consul so I’ll be interested in whether … in the same way the Prima Invicta aim is a much larger incurrent than normal and therefore I’d be curious whether it breaks down as quickly.

Raoul:  *sigh*

Essex:  I do think the problem with the Prima, well the member states of the Prima Invicta that we have, is that, at the moment they are very much, well every Prince is sovereign and people can join freely or possibly, they haven’t really said that people could leave freely, there’s some self determination arguably there.   I don’t think that’s going to become more flexible.  That people are usually inflexible and once there is now that we are established and concrete cities that are under there are going to say, well we have this control.  This person has been a client for a long time, they have a Viceroy, they will begin sort of consolidating and moving on to further developments within their cities.  Consolidating authority because for one thing it is largely members of the first estate and that is how the first estate operates.  It’s not necessarily a bad thing but it is bad for those who believe they are living in some sort of loose affiliation or under a slightly wide umbrella.  They are essentially living in an empire and an empire becomes what people view as oppressive.  

Raoul:  Right now it’s voluntary.  I don’t believe it will stay that way.  Eventually they are going to want more power than they have.  

Essex:  Right.             

No comments:

Post a Comment